View Full Version : Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin

Mother Jones, RN
09-05-2008, 02:52 PM
My mother always told me never to talk about religion and politics. I can't help myself. I'm going to open up a can of worms. Now that the political conventions are over, who do you think is going to be the next president of the United States? Who has the best healthcare policy? And what do you think about Sarah Palin?

Play nice. Please keep all comments civil.


09-06-2008, 12:03 AM
I havent really looked into health care policies, but whoever supports more funding for nonprofits and such would have my vote (if I were in the States) As for Palin, I think McCain is trying to "play" the game so to speak, I just thought it was rediculous how her having a daughter pregnant was blown out of proportion...I heard it and I was like "so? how would that impact her judgment and capability to be involved?" To me it was a moot point pretty much.
We'll see what happens- whoever can help the US out of its near recession will be good...

09-06-2008, 03:57 AM
I also don't know much about the healthcare policies. However I did hear that she doesn't agree with sex ed in schools, obviously this is true as her 17 year old daughter is 5months pregnant and the father doesn't want to marry her!

09-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Who I want to win and who I think will win are different men.

Neither has talked much about healthcare policies, and I'm not experienced enough to have a good opinion on that.

I am just relieved John Edwards's candidacy went nowhere. As a woman who had a vaginal birth after two ceasarians, the last person I wanted to see as president was a man who made a name for himself suing doctors for NOT performing c-sections. I don't think I'd want him dicating my healthcare; something says we wouldn't have the same views.

09-14-2008, 01:59 PM
My mother always told me never to talk about religion and politics. I can't help myself. I'm going to open up a can of worms. Now that the political conventions are over, who do you think is going to be the next president of the United States? Who has the best healthcare policy? And what do you think about Sarah Palin?

Play nice. Please keep all comments civil.


I think that Barack Obama will be the next president and that he has the best healthcare policy.

Fact Sheet for Nurses from the Obama Campaign

Barack Obama has been a consistent champion of America's nurses. As an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama chaired the Senate Committee on Public Health and helped lead efforts to protect Illinois nurses and improve the quality of health care throughout Illinois. As a U.S. senator, Obama serves on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee where he has continued his long record of advocacy for America's nurses.

NURSES' RIGHTS (click each subheading for more)

Oppose Mandatory Overtime

Barack Obama believes supporting nurses in the workplace leads to better health care outcomes. Numerous reports have demonstrated the importance of proper workplace protections for nurses and other medical professionals for ensuring that patients receive the highest-quality care and reducing preventive medical errors. In the Illinois State Senate, Obama worked to ensure that nurse-staffing levels and work conditions were subject to public review so that hospitals and other facilities implemented strong pro- nurse, pro-patient policies. In the U.S. Senate, Obama is a cosponsor and advocate of the Safe Nursing and Patient Care Act of 2007 which would limit mandatory overtime to true emergency situations. As president, Obama will sign this legislation into law.

Ensure Safe and Adequate Staffing Levels

As chairman of the Illinois State Senate Committee on Public Health, Obama led efforts in Illinois to ensure that health care facilities implement safe staffing levels for nurses and adequate nurse-to-patient ratios. Obama's Hospital Report Card Act, which provided requirements on safe staffing levels, was signed into Illinois law. In the U.S. Senate, Obama built on his record of success and introduced the Hospital Quality Report Card Act, a bill that requires reporting of staffing levels for nurses which will help to ensure that the number of nurses is consistent with the types of care needed by the patients and the capabilities of the staff. Obama's universal health plan also includes a provision requiring health care facilities to monitor issues such as nurse-patient ratios. Obama's health care reform plan supports inclusion and expanded reimbursement for advanced practice registered nurses.

Protect Nurses' Labor Rights

Barack Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board's (NLRB's) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor and strong advocate of the Re- Empowerment of Skilled and Professional Employees and Construction Tradeworkers (RESPECT) Act, which will overturn the NLRB's "Kentucky River" trilogy of decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction and professional workers as "supervisors" who are not protected by federal labor law. Obama also believes that the Bush NLRB's decisions could put too many nurses - over 800,000 nurses cross the country - at risk of losing their rights to organize and bargain collectively simply because they participate in modern managerial approaches like team production or direct others' work as part of their professional responsibilities. The RESPECT Act reaffirms Congress' original intent to exclude from the National Labor Relation Act's protections only supervisors truly vested with managerial responsibilities.

Bring More Americans into the Nursing Profession

The nursing workforce shortage ranks as one of the most pressing issues facing our health care system. Nurses play a critical role in every aspect of patient care and also serve as administrators and executives in clinical and policy settings. Yet, too many young adults are choosing not to enter the nursing profession, and a significant number of current nurses are switching careers or retiring early. Barack Obama will improve working conditions including limiting mandatory overtime, improving nurse-to-patient ratios, providing additional support to training and incentive programs, and continuing to recognize and support nurses' right to organize. In addition, Obama supports reauthorization of Title VIII training programs with greater financial incentives for students and nurse faculty, including scholarships and loan repayment. Obama also supports adequate funding of the Nurse Reinvestment Act. In the Illinois State Senate, Obama sponsored legislation and voted to increase funding for nursing scholarships.

Implement Assistive Patient Handling Technology to Improve Nurse Saftey

Six of the top ten occupations at highest risk for back injuries are in health care, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. Nurses are at high risk for sustaining back injuries, which are most likely to occur when moving a patient. Barack Obama believes it is critically important to implement "safe lift" and other assistive technologies to protect nurses from preventable injury. Barack Obama will expand and accelerate research to identify novel and innovative technologies and determine which are the most effective for various medical settings. He will also provide federal financial and technical assistance to hospitals, nursing and long-term care facilities to employ effective assistive technologies and will direct the Occupational Health and Safety Administration to implement meaningful standards that protect nurses from injury related to patient care.

HEALTH CARE REFORM (click each subheading for more)

Provide Universal Healthcare Access and Lower Health Costs

Barack Obama is committed to signing universal health legislation by the end of his first term in office that ensures all Americans have high-quality, affordable health care coverage. His plan will save a typical American family up to $2,500 every year on medical expenditures by providing affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage for every American; requiring that employers contribute to the health coverage of their employees; modernizing the U.S. health care system to contain spiraling health care costs and improve the quality of patient care; and promoting prevention and strengthening public health to prevent disease and protect against natural and man-made disasters.

Foster Healthy Communities

How a community is designed - including the layout of its roads, buildings and parks - has a huge impact on the health of its residents. For instance, nearly one-third of Americans live in neighborhoods without sidewalks and less than half of our country's children have a playground within walking distance of their homes. This lack of a safe place to walk and play is a major contributor to the growing numbers of overweight children. Barack Obama introduced legislation, the Healthy Places Act of 2006 and the Healthy Communities Act of 2005, to identify and address problems in communities that are at high risk from environmental contaminants, and to assess and support improvements to the environment. He has also sponsored legislation to address environmental health concerns for disadvantaged populations.

As far as Palin is concerned - she was chosen as a political ploy by McCain to rally women. I hope he fails miserably!!

09-19-2008, 10:22 AM
Here is McCain's take on health care, from a speech in 2007:

We are approaching a "perfect storm" of problems that if not addressed by the next president, will cause our health care system to implode. Here is what we know: First, we currently spend 2.2 trillion dollars -16 cents of every dollar we spend - on health care. By 2015, just seven years from now, that number will nearly double to four trillion dollars. Second, by 2019 Medicare will be broke. We are currently spending more on Medicare than we are collecting in payroll taxes and cashing in the few IOU's left in the trust fund. In the meantime, more and more of our retirees' social security checks will also go to pay for Medicare leaving our seniors with less money for their everyday expenses. Third, by 2017 more money will be going out of social security than is coming in. The next president must act to avert the impending "storm."

For all the grandiose promises made in this campaign, has any candidate spoken honestly to the American people about the government's role and failings about individual responsibilities? Has any candidate told the truth about the future of Medicare? Its costs are growing astronomically faster than its financing, and leaving its structural flaws unaddressed will hasten its bankruptcy. Has any candidate warned that we have a personal responsibility to take better care of ourselves and our children? Yet that is the only way to prevent many chronic diseases. Has any candidate insisted that genuine and effective health care reform requires accountability from everyone: drug companies, insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, the government and patients? Yet that is the truth upon which any so-called solution must be based.

Democratic presidential candidates are not telling you these truths. They offer their usual default position: if the government would only pay for insurance everything would be fine. They promise universal coverage, whatever its cost, and the massive tax increases, mandates and government regulation that it imposes.

I offer a genuinely conservative vision for health care reform, which preserves the most essential value of American lives - freedom. Conservatives believe in the pursuit of personal, political and economic freedom for everyone. We believe that free people may voluntarily unite, but cannot be compelled to do so, and that the limited government that results best protects our individual freedom. In health care, we believe in enhancing the freedom of individuals to receive necessary and desired care. We do not believe in coercion and the use of state power to mandate care, coverage or costs.

I believe Americans want to be part of a system that offers high quality care; that respects their individual dignity and is available at reasonable cost. Unfortunately, the American health care system as it is currently structured fails this test. It is too expensive. It insults our common sense and dignity with excessive paperwork, disconnected visits with too many specialists, and by elaborately hiding from us any clear idea of what we are getting for our money. We must reform the health care system to make it responsive to the needs of American families. Not the government. Not the insurance companies. Not tort lawyers. Not even the doctors and hospitals.

Obama's plan sounds great, but who will pay for it? According to the Obama piece above, employers will. Our economy is already in turmoil. Forcing employers to pay for employees health care will mean that companies across the economic spectrum will be forced to raise prices to defray those costs. This will lead to higher inflation. It will also lead to those employers having to lay people off or reduce hiring, thus increasing unemployment.

I agree with McCain that one of the biggest problems in health care in the US is that, as a consumer of health care services, I have no idea what things cost.

09-19-2008, 06:52 PM
....I agree with McCain that one of the biggest problems in health care in the US is that, as a consumer of health care services, I have no idea what things cost.

We have universal health care in Australia, we all pay taxes, but not many people know what things cost. The metal implants used in CP surgery can cost $40,000 each, if everyone had to pay separately we would be virtually killing kids everyday.

We seem to be hearing more about Pallan here in Australia than anyone else.

09-21-2008, 10:40 PM
Thanks for the comment P/J; I had a suspicion that this problem would not get better the more "universal" health insurance becomes.

Some people here pay on their own, to be sure, but most have insurance of some sort.

But even if a procedure will be covered by insurance, I think we (and you) deserve to know what our insurance will be charged. Not allowing consumers to see this creates opportunities for fraud and eliminates the ability to comparison shop. It kills competition.

10-01-2008, 09:36 AM
Quick question...after a surreal experience in another forum which shall remain nameless...are posts here edited and/or deleted if they do not conform to a specific opinion??:egg:

I enjoy a healthy and respectful debate, but I'll save my figurative breath if such is unwelcome.Thank you for any input!

10-01-2008, 05:47 PM
You need to contact the system administrators if you are concerned. However, in the introduction to NV uses are told what is acceptable use. If people are abusing others, or selling (promoting) repetitively their posts may be deleted.

If you express a view and give your reasons everyone will respect your views. (NOTE: the discussions on Britney Spears earlier this year got quite heated):cheers:

Mother Jones, RN
10-01-2008, 07:18 PM
We don't take down posts unless they are spam, or vulgar. My definition of vulgar is anything you wouldn't dare say in front of your mother. There have only been a few times that I've needed to wash out someone's mouth out with soap. Hope that helps.


11-13-2008, 04:14 PM
Both McCain and Obama would be disastrous for the entire medical industry, as neither believe in freedom; they both advocate government regulations over every aspect of healthcare in one way or another. Neither one understands that government, in a rational free society, has absolutely NO role in any business or industry apart from protecting the individual rights of all members of that society. Both seek to chain doctors and nurses in the name of the "public good". Since we all will have to deal with Obama now, we must be prepared for an onslaught of new regulations.
Sorry for the tirade, but I'm sick and tired of the same old crap from all the politicians.:mad:

BTW if anyone is looking for a nursing program in Southern California, check out

11-14-2008, 11:43 AM
Finally, someone who agrees that the choice between candidates was not really a choice. The government needs to find a way to stay out of certain things because they alway mess it up. I can think of may government driven departments (DCYF ect.) that are deeply corrupt. The last thing we need is government in health care. Politician are not to be trusted!! As a matter of fact, we see medicaid patients all the time abusing our ED for crazy reasons-I had a stubbed toe just last night!!

02-01-2009, 08:00 PM
I personally don't think that gov. policy can fix the healthcare system.

I believe it starts with us and people trying to do the best we can with the decisions or lack of that we make. That would help a lot.:)

02-09-2009, 10:56 AM
i have favored obama/biden...i really believe that a bad policy is better than no policy. palin was really naive and an unfit for the job!