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Old 12-11-2007, 11:39 PM
miss-elaine-ious
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Ok so some of you have said you are a nurse, yet you are going to do your BSN (bachelor of science in nursing?). Aren't you a nurse already? What would a BSN do you, unless you are planning on doing a Master's degree.

Do you need your BSN to be a nurse? I've also read other acronyms, such as ADN, APN, L-something, etc.

Can someone help an Ontario, Canada girl out? Since 2003, all of our nurses (RN's) have to go to university for a Bachelor degree. However, we have college trained RN's, and a lower level Registered Practical Nurse (RPN) that can be trained in college.

There are also 6-month programs to be a nurse's assistant/medical assistant, where they are trained to do bathing and feeding.

Thanks!

Elaine
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by miss-elaine-ious View Post
Ok so some of you have said you are a nurse, yet you are going to do your BSN (bachelor of science in nursing?). Aren't you a nurse already? What would a BSN do you, unless you are planning on doing a Master's degree.
What would a BSN do me? I've been asking myself that for years You don't need a BSN to practice as a nurse. You certainly don't get any more pay. It's a bridge to getting a Master's. I don't intend on ever getting a Master's, but I'm still glad I got a BSN. Convoluted, I know.

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Do you need your BSN to be a nurse? I've also read other acronyms, such as ADN, APN, L-something, etc.

Can someone help an Ontario, Canada girl out? Since 2003, all of our nurses (RN's) have to go to university for a Bachelor degree. However, we have college trained RN's, and a lower level Registered Practical Nurse (RPN) that can be trained in college.
ADN's are nurses who have Associate Degrees. A Bachelor's will take you at least 4 years. When I was in school, it generally took 2-3 years to get an Associate degree. I have no idea what an APN is, but LPN's (or LVN's) are Licensed Practical/Vocational nurses. I'll admit I do not know the length of their training or much about their scope of practice. I know that there are things LPN's are not "allowed" to do.

Hope that helped!
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Old 12-12-2007, 02:49 AM
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Note that this is Australia's System
RN (Registered Nurse or Division 1) - Bachelor of Nursing or Nursing Science (3 year degree)
EN (Enrolled Nurse or Division 2) - Certificate IV of Nursing (12 months) works under the direction of an RN.
PCA/PSA (Personal Care Attendant/ Personal Service Attendant)- Certificate III of Age Care (12 months max)

So you can be an Enrolled nurse and be studying to BNS to become a independent nurse
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:03 PM
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APN is advance practice nurse -- that includes NPs (nurse practitioners) and CNS (certified nurse specialists) Former are generally providers (NOT MD lite) the latter usually do more education and systems level work. Both were (in the US) masters level positions but they are transitioning to doctorally prepared. There's a new thing called a CNL clinical nurse leader, not sure exactly what the role is.

Some place will start you at a higher salary w/a BS vs. a AD. Even if you don't, you can only go so far with an AD -- for example, most/many places want hospice/home health to be BS prepared. Same for administrative work.

Other than that, BS tend to get more leadership, theory, and systems-level education, as well as needing a more rounded general education (i.e. anthropology, social sciences, often more chemistry, more math). Does it make a difference? I don't know. Some will say that an AD trained nurse gets more technical and hands on experience in school. As others have noted, it depends on the school. Also, my personal (and supported by the literature) opinion is that you really learn the skills you need for where you are once you start working, but learning to "think like a nurse" (i.e. clinical judgement) is something that gets a bit more grounding when you has a BS. Oh, and another thing there is a difference between a BS in nursing and a BSN. A BSN is actually a slightly less rigourous degree -- fewer credits, a few less classes.

YMMV
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:38 AM
NurseSean
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In Ontario, the nurse acronyms are as follows:

RN = Registered Nurse
RPN = Registered Practical Nurse.

These are some of the acronyms you will hear elsewhere.

BSN = Bachelor's of Science in Nursing (American)
BScN = Bachelor's of Science in Nursing (Canada)
BN = Bachelor's of Nursing (Canada)

LPN = Licensed Practical Nurse. This is the same as an RPN in Ontario.

ADN = Associate's Degree in Nursing which is a 2 year RN program in the US. There's no such thing as Associate's Degrees in Canada...for nursing or any other subject.

I know that in Canada: Alberta, BC, Ontario (and possibly others) offer only Bachelor's degrees.

You will need a Bachelors degree for Management, post-secondary degrees, advanced practiced, and public health nursing amongst other things. In Canada, job postings will always say Bachelor's degree preferred.

If you plan to do nothing but bedside nursing, a diploma is adequate. But never underestimate the mind's ability to change. It's easier to to a Bachelor's from the start, rather than bridge later (but opinions on this vary).

When it comes right down to it, a Bachelor's degree offers extra learning. Extra learning is always valuable.
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Old 12-14-2007, 08:07 AM
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Default BSN vs. Associates

Personally, I'm going for my Bachelor's so that I don't lose momentum. If I were to get an Associates and start working, I'd probably get into a comfortable rut, so I'm barreling through. I'm planning on a Master's pretty soon after graduation, so this makes sense to me.
Oddly enough, some employers prefer the ASN graduate nurses to BSN graduate nurses because they actually have more clinical time in their program.. The BSN programs here are more theory heavy.
-kev
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Old 12-14-2007, 06:07 PM
Marachne
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One thing I have noticed is that some of the "bridge programs" (RN to BS) are pretty good, in that they recognize that you do have experience working as a nurse and only focus on the areas of education you might not have gotten in your AD program. Also, there are some programs (for example, University of Washington, at least the one in the southern part of the state-Vancouver, WA area) that, if you have a bachelor's degree in something else will let you do a one-year bridge and then move right into a Master's program. And then there are the "direct entry" programs and accelerated programs that take into account earlier bachelor's degrees. The direct entry allow you to do an intensive RN program and then go directly into a masters level program. for example, Oregon Health & Science University has (had?) one that allows people to go directly from the intensive RN to either a psych mental health NP or a nurse-midwife program. The accelerated programs are just shorted. I did one of those: a 2-year (upper division only) program in 18 months, which included a 320 hr clinical rotation in 10 weeks...and like a crazy person I followed that with post-bachelor's PhD program.
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NurseSean View Post
In Ontario, the nurse acronyms are as follows:

RN = Registered Nurse
RPN = Registered Practical Nurse.

These are some of the acronyms you will hear elsewhere.

BSN = Bachelor's of Science in Nursing (American)
BScN = Bachelor's of Science in Nursing (Canada)
BN = Bachelor's of Nursing (Canada)

LPN = Licensed Practical Nurse. This is the same as an RPN in Ontario.
This is great but what does it mean? Does a RPN work under the guidance of the RN?

Why do a BScN when you can do a RN.

What is funny is the at a RPN in Australia and UK is a Registered Psychiatric Nurse (what used to be ?div 4? in Australia) and is equivalent to a RN except one specialises in Med/Surg and the other Psych (this has now changed with all nurses getting Psyc training and can specialise post-grad).
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Our program is changing to a Masters program next year. So graduate will graduate as a grad nurse (first year) with a masters in Nursing. The argument against this is that you my have a Masters but it is really not much use to you at such an early stage in your career in nursing, you would be better to get your degree and work for a few years and then go back do do your Masters.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:16 PM
Marachne
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The "you shouldn't get your masters until you've been out there working for a while" is a long held belief in nursing....unlike just about any other profession or discipline. At times it feels like a remnant of the apprenticeship model of nursing training (note, not education, training). It's also part of the reason we have a shortage of nursing faculty, and why nursing research is still in its infancy.

That said, there have always been people who go straight through...including some of the most brilliant clinicians and researchers I know.
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:08 PM
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The reason for the lack of nursing research is that nurses don't have the respect of the larger medical community. Australian nurses are still bitching about the nursing going into the Universities (about 13 years ago) since then the amount of nursing research as increased, but the people who should be doing the research are not the new grads who don't know where the research should be done, but the older nurses who have been in the industry for years.

People are graduating from Universities with PhD or Masters and expecting to be payed accordingly, but employers are looking at their experiences and they have none (in the field) so after a 4 year degree, and then masters, then Doctorate you are still going to be payed as a grad. It is suggested that people graduate, work for a year (our grad year) then help with research until they are ready to return and do a masters, and then you will get the pay rise with the masters after the year.
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